Europe takes care of it's citizens in a way that brings honor unto itself.
America makes pictures of it's leader sucking the tits of it's celebrities.
Only people in the US of A are dumb enough to believe this propoganda.
Now, ima let you finish, but Obamber is the best president this country has had in long time.

@Anonymous: i take it you live in one of the coastal states. i live in utah, and having our legislature here having any real power would scare the crap out of me.

@Anonymous: No, I don't - in fact, I'm your next door neighbor (Nevada). And personally, I like my state legislature and I feel ( and maybe it is just feeling) that I have more control or at least a better say in what happens in my state. My state house is only half an hour drive away. And if Nevada REALLY gets so bad that I can't stand it anymore, I can go to another state that is more to my liking... That is the idea of the 'laboratories of democracy' that I think is really important and allows people to live in the fashion that they most want - not some overreaching, corrupt group of federal politicians that the only way to escape would be to move to a different country...

Like I said, its just the way I see it.

@Anonymous: alabama and louisiana receive MORE aid from the federal government then greece recieves from the EU. So they are in fact MORE socialist.

@Anonymous: I saw your point as US good, EU bad. And the reason being socialism isn't working in the EU. I happen to believe socialism has very little to do with the overall welfare of a nation, or at least a lot less impact then many other factors. You can't make something from nothing. Good citizens make good countries. Socialism or liberterianism can't fix the problem of shitty citizens.

That said, I lean socialism because it seems make the best use of it's citizens. Talented people born with disadvantages should be able to have a positive impact on their society. When public service is eliminated or reduced, that becomes less likely.

But don't act like the system is the be all end all and the cause/cure of everything. It's not. The situation in Greece cannot be attributed to socialism anymore the the wonderful living conditions in some northern European nations be attributed to socialism.

@Anonymous: Well, I don't want to use the US history over the last 100 years as a template for one sort of -ism being better than the other. I agree with you totally that good citizens make good societies to live in - that is for certain.

That being said, I lean toward any system that respects individual freedom framed by the inalienable rights of life liberty and property of yourself and others. If that happens to be the definition of libertarianism, then so be it, I have little concern of what it is called. But I see socialism as concentrating power in one place where if seized (and history shows it usually is seized) winds up serving the few rather than the many.

And hey, no system is an end-all-be-all - but I definitely think that the people living under a system of government should work at the lowest common denominator of law, not this 51% of the populace voting away the rights of the other 49.

And I disagree with your closing statement; poor management of socialism in Greece has directly contributed to their situation. Their solution to the problem is instituting austerity measures to cut social programs. Some Northern European countries manage it better than others, but like I said, id rather a system that respects me and my countrymen for who I am.

>Greece's main problem is corruption. And their tax system does not work.
Once again, I think this drives the point home - a corrupt government that has complete control over life with a broken tax system is horrible. I would rather see a limited form of government where if corruption happens, you don't see rioting in the streets because the government made a promise they can't or won't deliver on.

>when's the last time Greece has exported anything? / Greece's main problem is that it doesn't have anything to export.
I see that as less of a problem and more of a symptom. Having an economy based entirely on manufacturing as asking for trouble, I think the best thing to do is for Greek citizens is to move toward more service based economy like the US did.

>socialism works just fine as long as the private economy generates enough tax revenue to sustain the system
Be honest with yourself - you can say that for ANY type of system of governance, it doesn't matter. The point I'm driving at is that a socialist system works on paper until someone gets greedy.

@Anonymous: So your point is "governments get corrupt so let's stop trying".
Putting power on the states moves the corporate bribery to them, it's not magic.
And without a uniform economy, you can't have uniform money, and you can't have wide open borders.
This mentality of just wanting to flush the government down the toilet is irresponsible and immature at best.
Also term limits! Come on people!