@Anonymous: I remember that too. Oh, Ron Paul; You're charming and look like an adorable smurf, but you know nothing about political philosophy or economics.

@Anonymous: Hearing Ron Paul try to explain anything related to the actual implementation of his policies, especially economic, is LOL.

@Gesso: After imperialism and the IMF raeped them of their resources, slavery, we practically make 3rd World countries what they are so Americans can live comfortably ignorant with limited freedom.

@Gesso: Freedom == property rights. Somalia == property piracy, the opposite of property rights. Nice try though.

@Anonymous: Oh, so freedom means that other people not you protect your personal interests? This is pretty much the icing on the cake as far as my "libertarianism is anarchy for pussies" idea.

@Anonymous: Again, Somalia doesn't have property rights.

@Anonymous: yes it does. that there is no central authority and the vast majority of Somalis are landless is irrelevant; within the jurisdiction of the various warlords, property rights are generally respected as long as the person in question is in high standing within the community. that they don't respect the property rights of foreigners is a non-issue --- no nation fully respects the economic rights of foreigners, if they did there would be no need for the WTO.

In the Native American language there is no word for property. We belong to the Earth, not the other way around.

@Anonymous: I've heard this before. Which language is it? There're lots.

(genuinely interested)

@Anonymous: you. do. not. understand. indigenous. medicine.

You can reject this with adhomium or anecdotal contradiction.

I've written papers and book reviews on psychedelics. They serve an important role. They're medicine in the same way that you wouldn't take a corticosteroid or anesthesia unless you had a medical need.

@Anonymous: Except, they murdered each other for resources and territory. Which is the same as white man's version of owning. Someone's sure spoon-fed you this noble brave bullshit version of "Native Americans".

@Anonymous: Both of you are right; in prescientific societies, the line between religion and medicine is often blurred. Look at the success of Pentecostalism or self-help literature and you see the same thing in our culture. I think what he was trying to say is that there was no annoying high school stoner culture in prescientific societies...

@Anonymous: Lakota if I'm not mistaken, the indians involved at Wounded Knee. Also, if you look around the World at any indigenous tribe none of them will have the invented word of "property" in their languages. When we die, we have no property.

@Anonymous: "I've written papers and book reviews on psychedelics." I didn't know some books are now considered psychedelics; please, share! (Will pay cost of shipping of course.)

@Anonymous: yea slavery was a standard of that time... at the same time empires had colonies occuping parts of China and India which were all under tyrannical rule. Therefore, slavery was a product of a long line of slave trading history. It was at this point that things were beginning to change and the movement toward a better country was set into motion.

@Anonymous: (again?) your response thoroughly underscores how separate you are from the actual consciousness in a native religion / society in the americas.

Pretty much that it was not used just for the mind-bend. Psychoactive experiences came with the tremendous responsibility to go into the world and MAKE REAL the instruction / insight that came from the medicine / spirit guides / 'psychoactive effects'.

To use the words / term "psychoactive effects" show the mindset of everyone who uses these words: on the drug stone la la my mind is amazing now I'll go back to doing the same bullshit I always did.

@Anonymous: http://www.amazon.com/Psychedelic-Medicine-Volumes-volumes-Hallucinogenic/dp/0275990230

http://newalexandria.org/papers/aztec/extended.html

http://www.amazon.com/The-Long-Trip-Prehistory-Psychedelia/dp/0975720058

http://www.amazon.com/Shamanism-Tantra-Himalayas-Surendra-Bahadur/dp/0892819138

http://www.amazon.com/Sastun-My-Apprenticeship-Maya-Healer/dp/006250259X/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

@Anonymous: That, and the North wanted to get rid of slavery, but the South didn't. We wouldn't even be a country today if we didn't allow slavery at that moment, since the South would have been butthurt over no slaves.

@Anonymous: >implying slavery still doesn't exist

@Anonymous: lol we just moved our slaves overseas to China. Don't act so dignified - the West along with most high civilizations have always relied on slave labour to get hard work done. I don't see the difference between paying children in Asia forty cents a week for 50 hours labour, and keeping Africans on your property doing essentially the same shit. It's just more palatable to Joe Average with them overseas. There is no slavery in America - but America exploits many slaves.

@Anonymous: one is purchased and the other is rented. I rent myself out forty hours a week doing the job of a slave.

@Anonymous: and a large portion of people in America are debt slaves. They do not own land and have to work or else they will have no where to live.

@Anonymous: Rental costs 50% of purchasing here, and the "asset" purchased is effectively non-transferrable as it is a subsistence need.

Moreover, bank interest acts as a form of rent, comprising 75% of the effective cost of the property.

So to retain 2x .25 = 50% of your rental costs, you make yourself socially immobile, and are forced to cover basic maintenance and land tax above and beyond your mortgage.

Property ownership is an illusory benefit for workers, its advisability depends on local costs and structures rather than being an absolute good.

@Gesso: Fuck that I want tyranny cause Somalia is horrible. Yep I'll sign all my rights over to a Jong Ill Style dictator. That's the solution.

Seriously false dichotomies are bullshit.

You can have a great amount of freedom and not be Somalia. You can also have a great a amount of Government protection and not be North Korea.

The goal is to have as much protection AND as much freedom as you can get without losing to much of the other.

It's not and either/or situation strawman.

@Anonymous: You bet wrong. Also, I suggest you look into:
a) the long term quality and maintenance of social-democratic pension systems
b) the long term survivability of superannuation pools
Neither has a sufficiently low risk to accept for retirement.

Given that I have looked into the survival of these systems, and their underlying assumptions (which aren't sustainable over a capital goods replacement periodic crisis, let alone a technology replacement capital goods crisis), my retirement plan is to die at work. Strangely enough, a significant body of my class of people come to this conclusion if they politically analyse retirement.

* * *

To the next Anonymous, where I live most landlords make jack due to a structure of taxation and due to the "smallness" of most landlords. The real profiteers in the land market are banks, as most landlords are extended on mortgages. There are a few true capitalist landlords, but these rapidly transition out of housing stock and into commercial stock; and, or become construction agents. Petty rentals, like all petits and small capitalists aren't a significant earner.

Perhaps I didn't make myself adequately clear about the structure of credit, interest and housing affordability in my region: your suggestion of extending housing to increase its worth is not viable where I live due to the difference between your housing market and my own. Most dwellings here are overdeveloped in terms of number of bedrooms and rooms already, whereas internal subdivision has been ruled out in favour of block consolidation to allow density increases. As you may know, expanding the size of dwellings is not possible in higher density constructions where portions of the construction are sold or long term leased (99 year) to individual owners under a collective owner—you can't knock a wall out and put in a granny flat in an apartment.

And, again, my housing market differs radically to your own—but you're just paying a different…